Monday, 6th November 1972. I write rather belatedly to send you my thanlrs for your being good enough to come to see me to talk about U. F . O' s -a.nd for your frankness in telling me about them. It is (as you will know better than I do) a matter of quite considerable public interest, as is reflected in the prominence given to it in t11e Press by "so-called" sigh.tinge. Iio'trever you personally leave one in no doubt that you can find no reason to indulge in fanciful (non- matcricl) explanations. 1fi tl1 my thanks for your courtesy and itlth best \iishes, Squadron Leader R. R. Roddy, Command Intelligence Officer, Ileadquarters Support Command, Victoria Barracks, St.Kilda Road, t.fELBOURNE I VICTORIJ" 3004. Yours sincerelys National Archives of Australia NAA: M1148, UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS LORD CASEY: Squadron Leader Roddy telephoned -he said he had been contacted by his Superior in Canberra asking him to arrange to talk with you about U.F.O's. He suggested he come to see you at 10.30 a.m. on Tuesday, 3lst October I s this allright? SQUADRON LEADER R.R. RODDY, Command Intelligence Officer for H.Q. Support Command (which covers responsibilities in W.A., S.A., Victoria and parts of N. S.W.). Deals with counter intelligence and security. National Archives of Australia NAA: M1148, UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS 'fednesday, 25th October 1972. Thanks for your letter of 2lst October. Let us talk about what you say when next we meet. I sa'v Pinlmoy late yesterday at ?-lelbourne Club. The only peculiar thing about him is that he has very long hair, so I had him on the verandah of the Club so that sight of him ,.,ouldn' t offend some of the more orthodox members! His main interest is clearly in U.F.O. on which he is inclined to concentrate. On this I 'll ask the Defence Department if I can meet (in Melbourne) one of the l~.A.A.F. Committee on investigation of U.F .L'. and hear wl1at he has to sa.y. One mildly interesting thing that Pinkney had to say when I aslted him wl1at his plans and expectations were as regards U. F . O. -"tvas "I don' t really suppose I 'll ever know more than I know at -ifhich was a modest and sensible thing for him to say. About your new Cortina. Are you getting the new 6-cylinder one or the present four? D.A. Casey, Esq. , M.c. , ''\fillimi '', ~1T .:t.'L.A.CJ~,DON, VICTORIA 3441. National Archives of Australia NAA: M1148, UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS MOUNT MACEDON, It seems to me that what Hoyle has said is not very different from what many people think about God. Amongst those ''ho think about such things a.t all, few people nowadays believe in God as an anthropomorphic personage. But many prople, I think, seeing that nature is organised and systematic and not just haphazard, believe that this organisation and systemisation must be purposeful, and that this indicates that there is a controlling mind behind it all -which is God. I gather from what you write that Hoyle's idea is really just this -without actually using the word 'God' However, it seems to me that t is conception is only an hypothesis which trys to provide an explanation of things in the absence of any real concrete evidence. But this is all a very long way from Pinkney's statement, that extra terrestrial beings ha.ve been operating on Earth and that they have been in communication with men. The problem is -Is this a statement of a fact, or is it merely a probability, or just a possibility ? To clarify the matter it is essential to decide !hich of these catagories it comes under. I myself cannot believe that if it were a fact such a stupendious happening could possibly be kept secret except for a very short time I mentioned to you, I think, tht Mind should rightly be added to the other four s~iw~a things -Space, Time, Energy and Matter. These are all incompprehensi.ble. The human mind is clearly limited in1 its capabilities, as it cannot in any way concieve what these things are. The mind can find out relationships between these things. Eiatwi Einesine has done this, but nobody bas ever found out what they are. The mind is incapable of doing this, and it seems to me ou)ious that this bas not been more stressed or remarked up0n by the philosophers. It seems to be not generally thought about or However, my ideas about all this are probably VelJV crude National Archives of Australia NAA: M1148, UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS and uninformed, and I expect that they would give any real philosopher fits t We are in process of getting another Cortina. Our present one has done over 50,000 miles and is beginning to need quite a lot doing to it. However, we are getting quite a good turn-in' price for it. We can\ get delivery of the new one for some few weeks, but hope to get it before Christmas. National Archives of Australia NAA: M1148, UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS Tuesday, 17th October 1972. Thanks for your letter of 12th October - although I ' m afraid I don' t agree with you about the Pinkney article in The Age of 7th October. You may not a.greo ,n_ th everything that Pinls:ney writes -I surprised if you did but his quotation from Hoyle, I believe, has unusua l sense. I 've since looked again at I!arlo1r Shapley' s book ("Of Stars and Men") '\rho is the .American equivalent of Hoyle (at Harvard) 't-Tho in effect says the same thi11g as Pinltney quotes IIoyle as saying - i . e . tl1t' .. t there is some ele1nent yet to be found and forn1ulated in our human assessment of 1vhat makes things work -i . e . in addition to the accepted four (Space, Time, l-1atter and Energy). IIe ( Ilarlo,., Shapley) says "that a fifth entity exists we can' t scarcely doubt. It may be more important thn.n any of the four we recognise. It must ~c a cosmic force and not merely human or earth I suppose you might use the word "supernatural" for this fifth sense, al though I don' t think either Iloyl e or Harlo11 Shapley used it. ffhen you get Hoyle and Harlow Sl1aploy saying practically the so.me thing, you can' t laugh it off. Tl1ey are, each of them, the accepted tops of scientific t~inking in the world, particularly in this field. "Willimi", ~10UNT ~lAC~DON, VICTORIA ;3441. National Archives of Australia NAA: M1148, UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS National Archives of Australia Sir Kci th lfallar, C. B. E., Secretary, Department of Foreign Affairs, I atto.cl1 photocopy of a letter from Ted lill (Chairman of Tl10 Age ne~vs paper I sent Jeill copy of the at~ac ed article by Pinkney in Tho Age of 7tl1 October and eng,uired a.bou1 it. I send you this without commen1 rhich no doubt you oan provide for yourself. ~o doubt you will consider enlisting Pinkney ns an a.<.lviser in your Department. WoS>Q q ...J NAA: M1148, UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS National Archives of Australia D. A. Casey, Esq., M. c., "'fillimi n ~iT .~IACEDON I VICTOlLI 344J.. I send you the attached let ter from Tod Noill uithout comment, lmicl1 no doul>t you co..n p rovide for yourself. PINKNEY' s a rticle . NAA: M1148, UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS LtEUT. COLONEL E . H.8.NEILL 250 SPENCER STREET, MELBOURNE, 3000 13th October, 1972. In your letter of the 9th October you asked me about John Pinkney' s column on the 7th. I am sure it is not a "leg-pull", although he frequently writes in a highly imaginative way. Pinkney is a regular contributor to "The Age" and writes two columns every week on television, plus a Saturday column on general subjects. He was at one time a member of the paper's staff but now works as a freelance, and a very successful one I understand. One of his other efforts is "Murgatroyd' s Mind Stretcher", the daily puzzle feature we publish, which h e prepares in conjunction with some mathematicians and scientists at the University. He also writes some television and radio plays. His referencesto Hoyle were based on a press conference given by Hoyle in 1971 in the course of which he said: "The only reason I called this press conference is that no Gov.t?rnment in the world would release this information. They fear panic among the people, and think that if the people know that some intelligent force is controlling them, they will no longer listen to them . "They (t h e aliens) are so differ e nt from what we know that to try and describe them in language that everyone would understand would be impossible. "They seem to be totally free of any physical restrictions such as bodies. They are like pure thought and can be anywhere at any time they please. The weirdest thing abou t it is that at times t hey actually appear in physical forms. In this way they have been responsible for almost all the legends in different countries, which are scoffed at today. " National Archives of Australia NAA: M1148, UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS At the end of his press conference he said that his scientific colleagues agreed that enough of this information must be divulged to the public t o soften the shock when the full revelation came., and that "A little at a time, more facts will be released (by us) until everyone has access to all the information". He clarifies the aliens somewhat more by adding "It is not an alien intelligence from another plane,t. It is actually from another universe which entered ours at the very beginning and has been controlling all that happened since". The Rt. Hon. The Lord C asey,, Edrington, Victoria. 3806. National Archives of Australia NAA: M1148, UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS MOUNT MACEDON, 3441 I really have no idea at all as to why the Age publishes such silly rubbish as the cutting that you sent to me. But from some of the rather strained school-boy humor in it -I can only think that is supposed to be frightfully funny and clever. There has been a quite stupid book published recently that has received a good bit of notice and publicity -called The Chariots of the Gods. It is about the doings of extraferrestrial beings who are supposed to have been on the Earth in the past. I have not looked at it, but I have seen one or tw notices about it. It purports to show that things like the Easter Island figures, and the Pyramids and other such works were made by visiters frem outer space. The basis of this supposition beiag that there were no people that we know of, in the past, who ere capabl g of making such things. There is of course not a scrap of hev1dence to suppoat such a claim. The Age article may have some reference to this book. The old maps sold quite well at Cristie's sale. They brought roughly twice as much as I thought they might. National Archives of Australia NAA: M1148, UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS National Archives of Australia NAA: M1148, UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS National Archives of Australia D. A. Casey, Esq. , M. C., " illimi '', l1T.l.f.ACED l , VICTORIA 3441. lb.at' s all this about? asked Ted Neill if it' s or wl1a.t. Doos it ring of a. bell ri. th you? a leg-pull GUESS WHAT ? UFO t-IEN HAVE BEEN TALKING WITH OUR L EADERS (John Pinkney). THE AGE, Saturday, October 7 , 1972. NAA: M1148, UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS THE -~GE~ Satt1rday,. October ~' have been. -talking "''ith n~ h've lh .;e 11;:-ih nd ~'P p!iot 'graphed. ; ic-~r;d !:i""i'~b:ed at by ' I y is :i\'"!"tly 1\1.-:l has b<?tt11n to itch f o:-son~ fr .:~i trick ~ ~Uhlini; and diti rira,r .. : n i:-i Bourke SI ~Qf i.~ ;;;cist) L11e to t~1rt11'$ rn~jor Go~ . r.~Ln a L .t rer' in ti. r thc>y hrd al .. scnr-d even a small. chipped s.lUCLr, Hoyie di<l n1,t re- 1\<lrnini'>tration~. allegrd the scicnti't, \\.'l!rc kt:rping quiet aoouc <he: star c:ca- ttll c.,' prtsen~1, fo r fear of drO\\n1!)g their pGpu in \\ J\. .;::; of c.1ltl!ral shock. H.iw the mer~lv run1~.n .1~1::td1 ar.1 Ni::on sJrvt\'l'd th..! tr~l:ma, he forc:bure to H1l\'le 1s a lie:-o of n1ine. fl is book The Black Cloud \\'ith ilc; daz.7.ling 1111.:nl.tl gyrr1nastics, yield 5, c n c:vcry r ad'n:i. ir1.:.:h 1n~i~h~s i:iro the p0ss.;>ic n ... ture cf rd c:l i:i Lcl liJ!e!1 CC. B 1t hi::. :htion nh 111t spa\.~,;hip hat>itllt'S liavi11g d \~ith our hi~i1- ups is i11c n'>i,.,rl'nt ~tlh lh<1~ r.ari=er ~tatement 3iJout ",_. n;gn su-v il11ncc". .hanc - h .. rged l'lf- he'd buv a ust d t.:ft) trorn t 1 n1a11) icllt:. apart ~:r.dl'r logicn 1 ex<sn1inatlun. If thc1:>e :1hn on::erve us ~re l. ni._,:~ -;i;id pi:-r h.tps pff H n~t'i 1 vr.1r:; A -t~w\.'ll rea a:-~ :hat diri.:cl cnnt~ct cou:d destroy us. C<,r. ... iJtr, for ex3mpl;, the r~. carc:her ' vorkine on v.::ic- c1nl'S. Woy should he con- t:1. ue \vilcn the ,1ns\vers ar e obU!inable fro m t he r .. e ir.:enLur, or rn a- t!\ c enuini:cr. \'v'nv seek f rc!>h v:::ys to design or bt~il:.1 \';hen the UFO-people can give LJS l!ll ,,e nceJ ? A benevCl1nt ::.ocil!t\' doc.s not in.pinr.e upun a C(im111un1Ly infrrior to itself. \Vhen the '.vhite :Een .:;.\ P.rti ed like a grey vlrus ne:;, th~v -sm.1<:L,.d trb.u r1odt:s 11ch had ~IJT\'I\ ed ~or tcl's or ti1ou~ands of \ r.nrs. A \Vt:d, Lhc black man gaz- ed un at the 1ncnt1n11.:n tal ; .. ks cif the :r.,adt.:r.;' tech- j i t a .. ,.ere thl! Re.! In c,i ri~ nd i'.:uor:~. h..,ppen ' us if But u ltima tel y, ::ve-:y thin~ !oats ir. rhe hlacl~. :n r-r.,te! 2r gt.!fs f cciij~c i'or ? fer l'ior- r ~ . n na: h a,l ot he l 'FO 'R :iearch G "r>) I toured Victoria for l\vo years, tape r ecordin"' thr: e.pericnce.:; of saucer-sigh l .. rs. N t a'l c j O'I!" :;npr xi- rna! i_, iOOO ir1.::r-:i.:\\C s 1c>und Hoyle'::> al!cn gula:-..y c1tniz.ns kindly. ..\ Fer11 Tree Gullv sch1)1:il - teacber fl called ''"alking horn"' at ci11sk -to be suct- d :1h' confronlt'cf hv a 1ntll\\', ro.1 ;.!)p.i.nning i;I:,rit, \\ lii .. h. :.s <;Jie -.r.>oci, u1rned hr!ght "I .. nn1dn't n1ove," S!1L' 1t:rril'it.:,i. ~1JVt)e it ,::?s iu ... t ii!l.":.~.i:,a t.on. hut I fe! t I :., i:;s 'bt.;ng \~<ltChc.u -by _c11ne~ 'J hcr1 ~li~rc .. ~ the Nev Gu:r ... :; nuss:tJl'.1ry, 1; ~rth ed b:, Peter, \VCO de .. cri ,ed ho\v natives came n:nning to .i-hut -hl'g~ing hirn to f )llO\'l t hcn1 tv lhe sec.- r here", said uu r prilPd f ect. a hove the hencl1, , ,as a sih~ry, bell!'h tpl!d cr a;t:, blindi11gly reflt.:cti11g the Sdl. T!i1rt: vr.re ratls itround the erJ~c'. jusl like: a ship's. "\Ve stooa staring ar it for an hour . . . unti: c1ear- Jy recognisahle men emc.:rg- ed. \VU\ ed to u~." Then there \\':'ls the se- . dan svndromc. Sever~l of Our SCrcr utd 10C1U s.:iid they h 10 be> n driving \\'r.en a l r () Rf>pCarcct and ho'.'ercd in front or rhc cnr. Al\.'a\s, t . n11tor !'.oppccl, &nd the enur...: clectricill sy::te1n fail- The ~ar "" ould onlv \Vork a .a in \Vhr!1 the craf L'.:> in- ::inthrorolo ic:ll appetites. l hc!ve sp11k\::r. h) too n1an \\';cnes~s 1 >\'hu can't all lie neurotic Ji1r-:) to en~ lt:!:"l.::n the faintc:,t doubt tLat UF05. do e\bt. Hut \V'H::ther thev con1<? 1:r'n1 space i;) anotlier mat~ 'T. at ::i1Hhcni::Hit'ictn's de- !ight, Flatlr1r:d. p.1su:la:es :t t\\ " -dimensional univ:?r"', ln ,,h1ch ~$-D ohjcccs :lpp a- on:> J.S dots. Po~1.:ihlv, cir.d it'<> 11ri thPor y Gnly, uro5 :1r tic fearson1~ fru.ts c,f a fif .h d in11.;r.sion. A.cr.1r in a dar :enc'1 theaLre, t!'h'Y nla~ ue ab1l tri peer onl\' hnc:fly Lhr( ul!h an invi,1b!1 cut rtlin. D fir~ hur rllng back into he:~ O\Vn \\orld uf lh 1ncer ; silence. v:hose e.;r!e in ra- srruc~ure ~\ , ists !'llnh~ht into ihe shape or cold cork SCfl!\\'S . PREPOSTEROS..-\ Zo0 .,1J1 11Jnt1es that tnere ''ill be a :r.a:o;s bre~Ku11t of S<l\ a;:'. guin ~:i pigs nex: Fr: !av. !->t:h:1Hi~ a further hi r.-r-1.?ihY bulletin of nYiid Pett Bu:\ .m hel :rid tl11 vc:.getnhle shrolves, n;r-n they r.c ticed the ~ 1por cl f stnring app~eciati\ lv -:ii~ mouth h~ngi:1g o~"n, d rool in~. p;1.:1..ing up a vJt o! frv- ing o'I. ;~1:1ivns h:.i:led i~ 41t tl1e in~uJcr -\'ho:>" t.s.-cun1-pa. ur'li p!r 1"4 National Archives of Australia NAA: M1148, UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS The investigation of reports of U. F. O. s in Australia is car~ied out by the Royal Australian Air Force, Directorate of Air Force Intelligence, at the Department of Air in Canberra. A conside~able amount of effort is spent in investigating each report and the majority of observers are interviev;ed by selected R.lA]' . personnel . Between 23rd January 1960 and )Oth December 1971, the RAAF received 595 U. F. O. re