Jacques Vallee on Christopher 'Kit' Green (I of II) (excerpts from Forbidden Science Document/Research Forbidden Science 4: The Spring Hill Chronicles is a book containing the journals of Jacques Vallee from 1990 - 1999. After finishing the book, I decided to go back and pull out some relevant quotes about figures and subjects in the field that people here might find interesting. For this one, I wanted to focus on Christopher (Kit) Green. After having read through all of Forbidden Science 4, Kit stood out to me as one of the more intriguing characters. It's really hard to gauge how genuine he is, but much of the information and rumor that comes from him speaks to stuff we've all been hearing for years. Rather than go too much into his background, I'd recommend anyone read this blog post and its supporting links. It basically does what I'm doing here with the previous Forbidden Science entries: [Edited to note that information in brackets like this has been added by me] On the phone yesterday Dr. Christopher (Kit) Green, intelligence expert and former monitor of the psychic experiments at SRI, told me of an interesting incident with General Strudebov, chief of the Soviet General Staff, whom he met at a Texas A&M workshop on disarmament that served as a preliminary forum for the Bush- Gorbachev talks. During a quiet moment at a cocktail party he said, It's time we turned our attention to a more important danger. What danger is that, General? asked Kit. Well, the threat from space, naturally! Somewhat taken aback, Kit commented: I understand that our Star Wars Initiative has caused concern among your people. Im not talking about your Star Wars, interrupted the general with urgency. Im talking about the threat posed by extraterrestrials. What was that all about, that talk about extraterrestrials? Kit asked the interpreter the next day. The fellow looked embarrassed. Please do not pay any attention, our General drinks too much... Kit and I agreed this behavior matched the surprisingly intense official interest in the subject I had noted in Moscow. It occurred to me that it would be difficult to get together a group of similar calibre if we had to do it in the States... I told him. He disagreed: In the classified world we have people studying the metallurgy of titanium, analyzing the composition of various UFO samples using magnetic resonance; you could find experts studying UFO r/UFOs5y ago iama_newredditor First Post - Jacques Vallee on Bob Lazar Christopher 'Kit' Canfield Green - further information Log Inr/UFOsSearch in r/UFOs Skip to main content Server error. Try again later. photographs, and the FastWalker project is being revived at Lockheed. Theyre finally taking a look at unusual signals. The problem is their arrogance: Theyre sure they can solve the problem. Another flaw is bigotry: When I meet some of these folks, the talk turns to religion. That's the only question, after a few beers. Once in a while its nice to clarify some little puzzle, even if the big mysteries remain. Over lunch today the enigmatic Colonel Ron Blackburn decided to come clean with me in anticipation of our trip to New Mexico. Ron gave me his impressive biography, with sanitized entries entitled Achievements in the field of national security. Hed co-founded what I jokingly nicknamed the Secret Onion group and co-organized a national panel on UFOs. In the first case, his co-founder was John Alexander; in the second case, it was none other than Kit Green, who never told me about this. John Alexander lives in a beautiful adobe home in a new subdivision north of Santa Fe. In his living room the nine members of the fifth meeting of the Secret Onion core group (and the first one where I have been invited) sat around the long table. The first day of the meeting went well, considering the confusing agendas and the fact that some of us were privy to the nature of Ed Dames' experiment going on secretly 40 miles away, while others were not. Kit did not come for various reasons he enumerated in a letter. He stated that the phenomenon was robust and had strong physical effects on people. He added that delusion often struck unsophisticated witnesses but also, occasionally, the best and brightest. Surprisingly, in a reversal of what he had often told me, he stated the Government was involved appropriately, legally, and fairly through a black analytical program. Hal described his research in a crisp one-page statement of his current physics model. John Alexander spoke of parallels between UFOs and near-death experiences, which also involve a multidimensional reality. Contrary to Kit, he never found a secret government Box for UFOs. Next week Ill meet Kit in New York [This meeting was cancelled when Vallee became ill]. He tells me hes reached radical conclusions over the last three months. The government is taking care of the right problem, he now believes: The evidence is solid. Yet Ive often heard him complain about the flaky data ... I told him [Richard D'Amato, Counsel for International and National Security of the Senate Appropriations Committee] about Jim Irish, the closest I ever came to find a man who had been part of a large, secret UFO data-gathering operation. I had once taken Kit to meet him, but there was no follow-up. Long phone conversation with Kit, who heralded a major change: The best analytical minds are digging into UFO data, he said, mostly aerospace and technical people. Small mesh, sensors of all kinds. A lot of strange things are not so strange when you expand the bandwidth, he said: Bright people with good access, not impressed by standard explanations. He used to think that no really secret project could exist without his awareness of them. But he was wrong, he admits. Kit now thinks that UFO material was recovered but he observes a large body of consistent, unusual data from a small number of squirrelly people. It looks like multiple sources of consistent information, when in fact there are only few sources of inconsistent data. What does that all mean? Skip to main content Server error. Try again later. Kit doesn't believe the phenomenon involves non-human consciousness. He still attributes it to delusionary states of mind. Isnt that in contradiction with the new statements about hardware? Kit met me in the bar of the Madison last night. Our long-postponed conversation covered his insight into government projects, current claims by ufologists, and a follow-up on Brazil. Kit still denies theres a genuine UFO phenomenon. Perhaps only those who have experienced it can grasp its implications? He agrees with my case analyses, but he draws conclusions diametrically opposed to mine: There might just be a very few real occurrences, he says, That Brazilian stuff sounds like rumor amplification, sheer mythology. What about the unexplained cases? Thousands of them, I insisted. Natural effects we haven't encountered yet. And clever hoaxes. That made no sense, so I prompted him to clarify his letter to the Los Alamos group, stating that the government had things under control. Before answering he ordered a cup of coffee and some apple pie, adding cheddar cheese on top of it. He said it was an old Wisconsin custom. I needled him, saying it was disgusting. I never had ice cream on my pie until I got to Colorado as a student, he countered with a wink. That must have been a happy day for you! I teased him again. When the waiter departed we turned to the serious stuff. He told me what had changed his mind about the secrecy issue. As you know, Jacques, for a long time I have claimed that in my position I would have had to know of secret projects on this topic. Even if they didn't tell me the contents of the Box, I would have had to know there was a box. Between Hal and you and me, and the wide network of contacts we represent, we should have heard something. Well, that was pure hubris on our part. I know this because of something that just happened in an unrelated field, a project Ive just been invited to join. Not only had I never heard of it, but it involves people I thought I knew well. It also involves five levels of clearances above my own. And I had a clearance above top secret. We let the conversation die while the waiter served our coffee and Kit's abominable cheese and apple pie, then he went on: When I was indoctrinated into that project, (which I should have been invited to join years ago, by the way, because it fell exactly in one of my fields of expertise) the briefing took place at a large facility that the government operates. The first meeting was a psychological orientation, before they would tell me anything Youd get a badge at the first desk and sign a book, then you would go to a second desk and receive a second badge, and so on five times, and you would not even get through the front door unless you had a top-secret clearance. The fellow who came to fetch me and take me into the briefing room was a man I had once hired. I had no idea he was involved in anything like this; with a budget in the billions. Even the codename is classified within its own level; it doesn't appear anywhere. Theres no way for anyone to know of its existence, until someone invites them inside. Kit admits hes shaken. No wonder he now develops a respect for government secrecy that borders on awe. We discussed the possible location of a super-secret Alintel (23). He dismissed the 1987 report by Howard Blum about a secret group. Blums book simply alluded to John Alexanders and Ron Blackburns proposed project I have nicknamed the Secret Onion. It went nowhere. Skip to main content Server error. Try again later. Theres also a rumor about something called Joint Task Force 6, and about Dale Graff setting up an interagency working group, but it was never given any responsibilities, he said. Someone told me it was buried under Jack Vorona's budget. He never knew about it, I interjected. Kit agreed energetically: Right! I went to see Vorona. His shoulders dropped when I mentioned UFOs and he lowered his head. He told me, 'They never let me in on it!' very sadly and dejectedly. Vorona is leaving DIA for a job with military vehicles. What about Colonel Hennessey? Bill Moore mentions him as the top guy above Doty, the man giving orders to I spoke to Hennessey; he swore hed never met Doty or Moore. One of these days there will be an Alien Intelligence Agency, as in my novel, and it'll be staffed by moronic technocrats, I joked. I thought Id found it once, he answered. I had a tip that there was this office in the Pentagon, 5G47, where the UFO project was located. I went there, and they had a perfectly good explanation for what they did, low- level observables. Until one day I was relaxing with a friend who used to be in the Carter administration, so I asked him about 5G47 and he said, 'Well, that's the UFO office!' Just like that. He had old Pentagon phone books but we couldn't find that office listed. We eventually found it in a 1967 phone book. It has been kept out of subsequent editions. I went back and I had three briefings with those guys. They do Stealth and drug interdiction. Their low-level observables are plain old anti-drug aircraft. That doesn't mean theres no UFO project, I pointed out. Of course not. I have another source, an insider who tells me he's seen hardware and bodies. But it's always the same story. There are claims of evidence on the side we don't have access to, he said drawing a vertical line on a napkin and writing an exclamation point on the left, but there is no evidence whatsoever on this side. He completed the drawing with a question mark to the right of the line. Kit believes that Colonel Phillips in Howard Blums book is actually Dale Graff, I said, reporting on our conversation. No, he's a Colonel at Wright-Patterson, answered Hal. Collins, who is Condor, met him when he worked there as a consultant. Graff did sponsor some of our work on remote viewing." Hal Puthoff, Kit Green, and I spent last evening together in this great hotel near the Pacific. My excuse to convene our meeting was a review of high-tech projects at IRT, a company in which my fund has invested. We compared notes about MJ-12 rumors. Kit assured us there once was a real Majestic, but it was only concerned with surviving a nuclear strike. Ralph Blum's book Out There claims that the CIA's Domestic Collection Division investigates U.S. UFO cases. That's all true, said Kit, except that since 1977 that group has been called National Collection Division. The Agency isn't supposed to have any domestic operations. In your letter you said you thought there was a black program... That's right, I'm sure it's handled appropriately. In my days there wasn't more than one case a month in the classified reports. Now there are several per week; sometimes they go up to the President. Skip to main content Server error. Try again later. He used to have a drawer full of intriguing stuff at the Agency in the form of photographs, films, reports, tapes; he threw it all away when he left. So the fact that information is collected doesn't mean that its being studied. [Later the same day] After a full day of technology review our private discussion came back to Blums book. The leak may point to Pandolfi at CIA: They'd asked him to investigate the Augsburg business, the six soldiers, Kit said. It's getting more and more weird. The messages on classified terminals came out of a secure network... Then it can only be one thing, the Agency counter-intelligence guys, messing with their brains, said Hal. The conversation returned to the topic of secrecy. As an exercise Kit asked us, on a scale of zero to ten, what was the probability of existence of a hidden government project? He reiterated: I am sure there is active collection, handled appropriately. I'm not interested in infiltrating my own government. Question two: Are UFOs physical objects, like coffee cups? I answered that the objects that made the ground traces in Trans-en-Provence and Valensole certainly were. They also agreed. On the question of the existence of biological entities Kit gave a high score. Hal and I were much lower. The research needs to go on. Most of the researchers we know are zealots at heart, and religious nuts, Kit says. But there are other things going on. Ever heard of Eric Walker, president emeritus of Penn State University? He claims that Aliens have indeed been recovered and taken to Wright-Patterson... You'd be in awe of the man, dean of engineering at Harvard, co-founder of the Academy of Engineering and of Sciences, chairman of the Defense Science Board, former head of the JASONs, science adviser to the President, former chairman of TRW,... it goes on and on. He stated that four live Aliens were retrieved. We studied them, they learned our language. We allowed them to blend into the population... What's Walkers field of research? I asked, stunned. Sound waves, applications of acoustics. He founded the Navy's underwater sound laboratory. He was also a co-founder of the Institute for Defense Analyses, and a member of the H-bomb team. In one of his books he writes that citizens dont necessarily have the right to know what government scientists are working on. Kit went on: He still has an office on campus, so I went to see him. I made it clear I had an official portfolio and clearance to talk to him. He asked me two questions: Why I was interested and why I thought the information should be made public. I told him my interest stemmed from concern about misinformation circulating in the media and that I wasn't sure the data should be made public. Those must have been the wrong answers, because he flatly refused to confirm or deny that he had made the comments in question, or written the letters. But I'm sure he wrote them. What else did he tell you? Damn little. When I asked what could make him change his mind he said, Bring me a letter from the President, instructing me to talk to you about that stuff, and I'll call the President to make sure the letter is from him. So I said, Perhaps those letters that are circulating over your signature are not really from you, perhaps they're forgeries? He wouldn't discuss it, and would I please leave his office immediately? By the way, he frequently travels to Russia. He was a close friend of the late Armand Hammer. Skip to main content Server error. Try again later. Kit called. He wanted to spend several hours and talk, in some quiet place, about stuff... I now think you were right all along, he said. Well, that's a big surprise! I laughed. We will meet next Friday. Kit has now contacted six cabinet-level people, including former CIA director William Colby. All said, drop it, we don't understand the statements that were made to you about captured hardware and beings, people must have lied to you. Kit now believes Im right about the control system, but it's human. He recently met a four-star general at a desert location who confirmed the existence of a secret UFO project. Later, Pentagon types who didnt know about that contact tried to mislead him, attacking his clearances. He was shaken by it, although he emerged from the ordeal with a letter from the CIA director: Dr. Green is empowered by this office to inquire into any matters that he chooses to investigate. He speculates hes too independent to be recruited by the Cabal and shown the hardware, assuming there is such a thing. Ive found out that Richard Doty worked for Hennessey until 1985. He was honorably discharged a couple of years later, left Air Force-OSI and took a lowly job in New Mexico, keeping connections and clearances alive. When I went to see him he was fully briefed on who I was and what my access was, said Kit. The altercation I had in DC a few months ago was with Hennessey, distorting the record. So he's still with the Stealth program? Yes, but the program has gone through several names. It used to be called 'low observables,' then it became deeply classified and Hennessey was made head of physical security for all Air Force black programs. Now it's under Stealth. Where does that leave Doty? Doty claims to be in contact with the manager of a program doing reverse engineering of UFOs. He once made a phone call and then took Moore and Shandera to a place where they actually saw a flying saucer land, close to Sandia. I had to chuckle: Very impressive! But if you wanted me to make a fake saucer land in the desert, I don't think I would have too much trouble doing it, I said. Kit agreed: Shandera wasnt fooled; he thought it was a pure Hollywood job. Flying back from Washington, where I just met for three hours with Richard D'Amato at the Senate Appropriations Committee. When I told him about Kit's investigations he agreed the three of us should get together before he did anything about Doty. Thunderstorms are moving into the area, delaying flights. Yesterday in Washington the weather was hot and humid when Kit dropped me off at National Airport after four hours of intense conversation with D'Amato. I had introduced them to each other at the Madison, having reserved a quiet, private table in the back of the restaurant. We ordered coffee, pancakes, toast, and the discussion began. Skip to main content Server error. Try again later. I know where I've heard your name, said Kit. You were involved in the review of the SRI psychic work. Richard explained that he was now funding the project himself, had actually written the research into legislation, and